Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  noobzilla on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:39 am

If you are confused about character names while discussing here's a visual guide to all the named characters: http://www.oddsquad.org/2010/07/cittchara.html

As this is the spoiler thread there is no need to mark anything as spoiler. Whenever I read our translations (published or not), I come upon new and interesting things on Cheese and get this urge to gush about it to our staff. So I thought I'd also let the readers in on it.

I'll begin with Jung and In Ho's respective personalities and their reaction to a crisis - So it's c64 (I am jumping a bit aren't I):
Creepy stalker running away after assaulting Sul
In Ho: Running after him shouting at the top of his lungs and telling him to stop and then saying "not stopping?!". It's similar to his "What kind of back alleys all look the same?" around the time AP Huh got hit- Duh, ofcourse creepy stalker won't stop, and back alleys look the same at night <.< obviously
So basically In Ho's loses his head in crisis and doesn't think much.

Jung: Sul gets hit. Takes care of her. Hears all details. Then goes off to find stalker in a place he recalls from a past incident. At the same time, doesn't inform anyone else about it as he needed to prove his worth as the boyfriend who can protect (it was questioned by In Ho earlier).
I.e. Jung: level headed, calm and calculating.

That brings me to: Jung is always feeding off of other people's misfortunes without even trying:
1. Has a fight with Sul: Bora's Dad get's hospitalized so that Jung can act the responsible boyfriend, and have Sul to get over the argument out of gratefulness.
2. In Ho questions why Jung wasn't there to protect Sul against Young Gon.... twice. Immediately afterwards Sul get's attacked. Jung gets to act heroic.

I am not sure if this is part of what the fortune-teller said in c1 about Sul meeting an unlucky guy who will make her unlucky too.... but that only looks half true so far - Jung doesn't seem so unlucky if you look at it this way!

Why is Jung unlucky? And the matter of empathy
1. His dad thinks he's crazy and will never make true friends. Is Jung a psychopath who can't empathize with other? From what we see so far, Jung likes sul because Sul has daddy issues like he does. Sul, who he believed was a female Young Gon turned out to be different: as introverted and hard working as Jung probably is (except his money and looks doesn't allow him peace and quiet). So Jung can only empathize with those he perceives is very much like him. (he says he perceives sul to be like him when he speaks to the stalker). So is everyone else trash for him to be manipulated?

Those are some of my opinions... there are more.. but I don't want to write a 50 page thesis.


Last edited by noobzilla on Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:17 am; edited 5 times in total

noobzilla
Admin

Posts : 266
Join date : 2010-12-25

Character sheet
Name: Jung
Class: Very High.
Race: Human

View user profile http://oddsquad.userboard.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  Caprice on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:55 am

Though psychological diagnosis and conditions are not to be thrown about lightly, from what I've seen of Jung's behavior, I can't help but think he suffers from a congenital form of dissocial personality disorder.
Wikipedia wrote:Dissocial Personality Disorder is characterized by at least 3 of the following:

  • Callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
  • Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
  • Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
  • Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
  • Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
  • Marked readiness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.

Dissocial personality disorder is characterised by a particular pattern of genetic mutations in and near the DRD2 gene on chromosome 11. Most people have two copies of chromosome 11. Mutations must be present on both copies of the chromosome for an individual to be at risk of developing dissocial personality disorder. The mutations associated with dissocial personality disorder are:

  • the TaqI-A polymorphism of the ANKK1 gene, and
  • C957T polymorphism of the DRD2 gene.


Now, judging from upcoming Chapter 44, his father seems to have suffered from the third characterization, "low tolerance to frustration and discharge of aggression" through the mention of anger management.

Jung, however, seems to display some of these behaviors in more cunning ways. "Callous unconcern for the feelings of others" along with an inability to empathize has been displayed on several occasions. "Incapacity of maintaining enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them" might apply to his string of former girlfriends and callous rejection of the last? "Incapacity of experiencing guilt" seems to be present from the repeated manipulations of others, though we can't say much for the 'punishment' part since he hasn't been caught.

And the last, "Marked readiness to blame others or offer plausible rationalizations" is made clear in... Chapter 45, 46, 47, or 48, I can't check - when Sul confronts Jung about what he did to AP Huh, and likely on other occasions I haven't read yet.

So I'd say Jung has an abnormal way of thinking that could make it, as his father suspects, indeed difficult for him to make true relationships. Is he redeemable? Perhaps. Depends on the story.

Just thought I'd share my two cents XD

Caprice
Reader
Reader

Posts : 20
Join date : 2013-08-03

Character sheet
Name: M
Class:
Race: Muse

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  noobzilla on Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:16 am

Caprice wrote:
Wikipedia wrote:Dissocial Personality Disorder is characterized by at least 3 of the following:

  • Callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
  • Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
  • Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
  • Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
  • Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
  • Marked readiness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.


[/list]

You know Cap, while I was reading this defintion I thought you were talking about Oh Young Gon because  I didn't read your first line saying it was about Jung. !
1st and 5th point:  Stalking a girl, doesn't realise it's his fault, shirking off his responsibility and not learning even after punishment (In ho's beating, becoming an outcase in uni)
4th point: his multiple outbursts
5th: He has victim mentality through and through!

But I do agree Jung has some of those issues... and I read on the news (link) that psychos do actually have empathy but they are able to do what they do because they are able to switch it off at will, unlike normal people...

noobzilla
Admin

Posts : 266
Join date : 2010-12-25

Character sheet
Name: Jung
Class: Very High.
Race: Human

View user profile http://oddsquad.userboard.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  Doonge on Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:54 am

Jung doesn't seem to have disregard for societal norms, he's even particulary into it to shield himself, and playing them to buzz off annoying people.
I don't think he has no notion of responsibility either.

He has an enduring relationship with some people (Hwang in mind). Those who don't leech off him.

He has a very high tolerance to frustration. From what I can see, people mooching off him is frustrating him, but he endure because he thinks societal acceptable alternatives are much more tiresome, or even forbidden to him (he has a position to maintain).

It is possible he has a callous unconcern for the feelings of others, but to be fair the same can be said about his entourage. He didn't learn to care about others, because he had to protect himself from others too much, to care about himself.


..but I let you make theories... =p

Doonge
Artisan
Artisan

Posts : 756
Join date : 2012-01-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  noobzilla on Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:24 am

Caprice only pointed to the 1st, 3rd and 5th point, and 6th point only in her theory.

However, you could probably come up with an argument against most of them. I think Jung's callous unconcern is for people who he has "written off" but then Jung writes off most people as unimportant. His expression when Sul got hurt wasn't callous at all.

noobzilla
Admin

Posts : 266
Join date : 2010-12-25

Character sheet
Name: Jung
Class: Very High.
Race: Human

View user profile http://oddsquad.userboard.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  noobzilla on Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:12 am

Right more thoughts incoming ~
- I suspect In Ho was the first that Jung might have empathized with, in which case his father's hope that Jung would have an honest relationship actually worked... for some time at least. But  due to the broken hand incident, Jung feels betrayed by In Ho because In Ho developed victim mentality like Oh Young Gon and the frame-demanding kid. The reason for this suspicion is that Jung expressions are most honest and most varied when he's speaking/arguing with In Ho. They act like siblings!

c65:
Jung's conversation with the pervert where he says "she knows it all, she is the same as me." (referring to Sul)
- Now Jung has found possibly the second person he empathizes with: Sul (first being In ho). But the problem is he seems to be expecting a lot more from her because of this sentence "she's knows it all". Jung has noticed Sul being a perceptive person but saying: "she knows it all" ? isn't that a bit extreme... Sul recently found out about the scholarship and got really mad, I wonder how she would react if she knew of all of Jung's manipulations.  

That brings me to: Does Jung think Sul is capable of being manipulative too? Jung either misinterpreted some of her past actions or has seen the talent to be a master manipulator like he is (give that Jung is a master manipulator and not just someone in the wrong place at the wrong time who always gives readers the wrong impression). Another could be that neither of them are true "people-persons".  

And lastly what will happen when Sul does not live upto all his expectations? We've seen that Jung can be really cold and scary. His anger is literally cold and calculated - see c64/65: Jung's rage... is COLD. Very Cold. And after the second "kiss" chapter with its the lovey dovey pink ending, creeped me out, because it looked exactly like those: DUN DUN DUN moments where you expect the monster to pop up. I'm expecting some serious Jung-sul issues to pop up after this Min Soo and OYG issue is dealt with.


Last edited by noobzilla on Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

noobzilla
Admin

Posts : 266
Join date : 2010-12-25

Character sheet
Name: Jung
Class: Very High.
Race: Human

View user profile http://oddsquad.userboard.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  Doonge on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:24 pm

No spoiler :p tsk tsk post this later... ^^'

Doonge
Artisan
Artisan

Posts : 756
Join date : 2012-01-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  Caprice on Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:55 pm

Noobzilla wrote:As this is the spoiler thread there is no need to mark anything as spoiler.
Is kind of the point of this thread, Doonge XD

Caprice
Reader
Reader

Posts : 20
Join date : 2013-08-03

Character sheet
Name: M
Class:
Race: Muse

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  noobzilla on Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:46 pm

If it's later i'll forget about it.... see I forgot what thoughts I had when I proofread c44...... so long ago... (blame the typesetters)

noobzilla
Admin

Posts : 266
Join date : 2010-12-25

Character sheet
Name: Jung
Class: Very High.
Race: Human

View user profile http://oddsquad.userboard.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  BlackHorus on Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:35 pm

My opinion of Jung changed slightly after his recent phone call made with his father. Not sure which chapter, but Jung said that he wants his father to acknowledge that he is normal unlike what his father thinks. From this, I thought may be Jung wanted to look normal to his father and became to have the desire to appear normal. Also, since he was young, people were faking and expected something from others (as seen at the party scene around s2c44 or so...). So, maybe he thought that those are the "normal" behavior of people. He also said that others does the same in some chapter... (gosh, I really don't know which is from which now... @.@) The idea I get from all this is that Jung was perhaps "normal" in the beginning, but father's obsession with being normal and the abnormal behavior of people surrounding him made him become abnormal despite his desire to become normal. :/

Also, I think Jung thinks that Sul knows all because her behavior was similar to his when he used to hate her. (Like how she snickered at Jung and fake smiled and all) Then, he's assumption of being the same became to be a belief toward them being the same as he started to like her. He doesn't think there is any friend, but only "those he can make use of" around him, so maybe he wanted Sul to be the same as him and have someone as his companion.

And if Sul doesn't fulfill his expectation of being the same as him... I guess we'll have to watch more and see if Jung will feel betrayal or just disappointment... Jung definitely becomes to love Sul more and more, that much is obvious. But the love is what makes the situation more tense seeing how it only increases expectation and trust toward Sul.
And, I guess we do see some hints at what may happen. I mean, Sul acted different from what he expected several times now. (Like how she scolded Jung for Huh incident and how Sul scolded Jung for showing the cold smile again after promising her to not do that.) Jung actually questions and starts to have doubt as to if Sul truly understand him after he gets the cold smile scold.
The readers also know that Sul and Jung think differently and are rather more opposite than being the same from the comparison given from time to time (like at the hospital). Since we know that they are different, our curiosity toward the afterward only increases...

Now, from the pervert incident, we can also start thinking what Sul will think of Jung and how she will react to Jung's strange behavior in the future. She got angry at Jung for helping Sul during Huh incident, but she was rather more scared or thankful when Jung beat up the pervert. She seems like she still wants to believe that Jung is a good person who loves her. Then, if Jung manipulates others again and results in hurting others for her again, what will Sul do?

Smile Mostly conjectures and not very much of factual.

BlackHorus
Trainee
Trainee

Posts : 42
Join date : 2011-07-27

Character sheet
Name: BlackHorus
Class: Luminous XD
Race: Elf

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  Jaybeee on Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:47 am

I don't think Jung has a personality disorder, or any type of mental disorder at all. As we have seen, Jung seems to be very manipulative. And most of us find it weird, and creepy. However, I think he's just a very blessed guy who makes use of his "skills" to get by peacefully. He seems to have come from a very good family, too, so maintaining and creating a good image is a must. I think his biggest flaw is that he regards himself as someone who's above others. He assumed that everyone around him at their school is some loser who's trying to climb his/her way up by sucking up to Jung. As someone who grew up in an environment where people are so used to using others, he was able to develop a skill where he can see through the intentions of a person who approaches him so that he won't get exploited like his dad. So with this mind set, he thinks he can order people around because he knows what he's doing as much as he knows what the others are doing, and intending to do. I think the reason why Jung was drawn to Sul was because it was the first time he made a mistake in his evaluation of someone. I think their meeting was so Pride-and-Prejudice-like study . They had the bad first impressions that got worse because of their prejudices. I think that the reason why Jung was so agitated and irritated with Sul last time ( as in when they first met) was that he thought that Sul is just as perceptive as he is, and that he thinks that they both know that they're playing the same game, and he could see that Sul is somehow becoming "offensive" (as in doing the "attacking") when he heard from Sang chul that Sul has been saying "bad stuff" towards Jung (I think it was about the sincerity of Jung in helping others). Things got out of hand when they had this face-off (lol). However Jung got to see more of Sul due to his perceptiveness, and he realized he must have looked like a real jerk, and decided to approach Sul because he deemed her worthy enough of his time (yes, he is arrogant). And of course, he was able to see right through her and, again, realized that Sul isn't like the others, and he was so dead wrong about Sul. And so there they are, working their differences out. I think Jung is trying really hard to make Sul like him. He's also careful to hide his "manipulative" side because he's so sure that once Sul gets to see this side of him, she'll leave him for sure. And no, he doesn't want that. Remember Jung's love fortune? I think that he will be humbled by Sul. She'll most probably break Jung's walls, and make him realize what are the things he has been so dead wrong about. We've seen great changes in Sul, she now knows how to stand up for herself, and she now sticks with her principles.

Jung's opinion on the Baek siblings
I think Jung used to "like" Inho, because the guy's very honest and straightforward with his feelings and opinions. However, Jung had this mentality where he stands above others. He has come to hate the siblings because they've become "leeches", and he just can't help seeing his father being fooled. I'm not really sure about this, but I have this feeling that it really is Jung's "fault" why Inho broke his fingers. I'm not sure which guy, but Jung must have purposefully agitated a guy whom he hates, and hates him in return, and knowing Inho, he knew that Inho will get himself involved, and settle it in his stead, but he didn't care much. However, things got out of hand, beyond Jung's estimation of possible inflicted damage. Inho must have realized that he was "manipulated" by Jung, like a rat who got caught in a trap (lol, cheese in the trap), and assumed that it was Jung's intention to "destroy" him, and have been blaming Jung since then. I know there are still lots of things in between.
I'm still not sure about Inha (?), but I think she'll play a big role in revealing Jung's incredibly arrogant side to Sul. I'm sure she knows Jung very much.

Jaybeee
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 1
Join date : 2013-08-25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  Doonge on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:14 am

Wow very nice writing ^^ I kinda agree

Not quite sure about the perceptive side of Jung though. I think he's very good at sensing when people want something from him, even when they do not (he's quick to think people want to exploit him), and so he honed this particular way of thinking. I'm not sure he's good at knowing what people want when it doesn't concern him much, or when they just want to be nice (I suppose it didn't happen often to him since he's perceived as smart and capable, so he doesn't need help and things like that, not to mention he's buried in people who want to moohc off him, so it might discourage genuine ones).

He's also a loner. He's not telling what he thinks to anyone, including Sul I think. He always has his plans, and doesn't confide.

Doonge
Artisan
Artisan

Posts : 756
Join date : 2012-01-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  noobzilla on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:15 am

I agree with Jaybee that Jung might not be a sociopath at all. But just flawed. It makes sense that he categorizes people into stock types that he has come to recognize over the years. Maybe he's still trying to map Sul into a stock character he can understand. When he opens up to Sul about interning at his dad's company and so on, Sul looks disturbed and at that point Jung said something along the lines of "I think I know which part of what I said disturbed you". This is my opinion but I think he assumed Sul would be focusing/ be bitter about Jung's excess privileges (which is partly true). But Sul surprises him by saying she was worried about not being part of his future plans ><.

The loner bit:
Isn't that kind of like how Sul was with Bora? She kept everything to herself because telling others is tiresome. Funny how it was Jung giving her the advice to open up. OPEN UP JUNG! OPEN UP!

About In Ho:
If you've seen the latest chapter, it seems Jung is indirectly driving Min Soo (the copycat girl) into a corner for Sul's benefit (as far as we know). If he was on good terms with In Ho (and I really suspect he liked the guy), Jung probably tried to help In Ho and it ended up backfiring on him. From the small flashbacks: the quiet guy who was taking piano lessons with In Ho was the one who broke his fingers. This kid was also sponsored by Jung's dad and was told to get friendly with Jung. He couldn't do either because he's a bit of a wimp while In Ho was a straightforward guy, a better pianist and really close to Jung (everything this guy probably wants to be). This is like the current Min Soo - Sul situation. That kid heard In Ha threaten to break In Ho's fingers with the piano keyboard cover and probably did so himself later. I donno who instigated it, (In Ho was pretty insensitive, himself) but if Jung drove this guy to a corner to help In Ho somehow... like he's doing with Min Soo, that'd be quite a tragedy.

Btw Random Prediction:
Oh Young Gon is gonna die a really horrible death (poking the beehive like he is in the future chapter [beehive=jung])

noobzilla
Admin

Posts : 266
Join date : 2010-12-25

Character sheet
Name: Jung
Class: Very High.
Race: Human

View user profile http://oddsquad.userboard.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  noobzilla on Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:07 am

Min Soo's Downfall
s3c15 - Jung sees Min Soo's part of the group project, says its surprisingly good and can be used without much edits
s3c18/19 - Sul tells Jung that Min Soo is a copycat and stole her phone strap. Jung doesn't think so at the time.
s3c26 - Jung tells Min Soo her research has irrelevant bits and poorly organized. This is the same time he sees Min Soo's stolen phone strap
s3c28 - Jae Woo is saying Min Soo has quantity over quality in her work, it's poor etc.
s3c30 - Presentation day, Jung praises Min Soo saying her work is the most exceptional this time. Min Soo gets blamed for plagiarising Sul completely
s3c31 - Jung's chronological flashback (evident by how his clothes change mid flashback)

So here's two theory different scenarios:
Theory 1. Min Soo submitted a decent report the first time by copy-pasting from different places and (Jung admits this). But after hearing Sul's claim of MS being a copycat, Jung decides to criticize her and push her to look at the topic of "Q female company's CEO". This decision is likely to be the latter part of the Blue flashback where his clothes change (just before the 1 year flashback starts in c31). Conclusion: he set her up to discard her old work and use Sul's.

Reasons: In c31 Jung is clicking the link to Q company's female CEO's interview..not the research on Global Leadership. He could indirectly say hey look what an interesting topic by showing Min Soo the CEO's existance...and Min Soo googled up Sul's work that way. Also if Min Soo had copied Sul's presentation right from the start, she would not have been criticized...

Theory 2. Min Soo bought Sul's presentation right at the start, and Jung didn't realise this initially but only does so after hearing Sul saying MS is a copycat a few days later. That's when he decides to not bring up the plagiarism. Conclusion: He simply kept quiet about the plagiarism. (simple but a little more loopholes)

Funnily enough I could bet I read that Jung gave Min Soo a reference site before c30.... can't find it anywhere now. Everything really depends on when Jung gave her the site link.

noobzilla
Admin

Posts : 266
Join date : 2010-12-25

Character sheet
Name: Jung
Class: Very High.
Race: Human

View user profile http://oddsquad.userboard.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  d1r31 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:58 pm

I have no reason to doubt Professor Bek's evaluation of Yoo Jung. The father also had issues with socializing, so the implication is that it's a genetic tendency handed down from father to offspring. Furthermore, we've been shown examples of Yoo Jung being manipulative, above & beyond the norm.

However, the father was able to normalize his own behavior, so Yoo Jung may be able to, also.


d1r31
Reader
Reader

Posts : 16
Join date : 2013-08-25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Cheese in the Trap Spoiler and Prediction Thread

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum